“As a human being who plays and designs video games I’m very concerned about the slippery slope we are headed for. At what point do we draw the line in the sand? Torture, rape, bondage, incest? Just because it’s a fantasy video game doesn’t make it right.”

This Wolf concerns me a great deal. As one is accepted many times the others can follow with less resistance.

Learned a lot of things I never knew, especially amazing is Blizzards dealings with sexual predators? Never heard about that one. But I guess not surprising. concerning the total lack of control on their forums.

“A long time ago someone cared about Kalimdor, Azeroth and their inhabitants. This was their world, we just played in it. Now it seems Blizzard only care about getting your $15 each month.”

Yep when I first played WoW so many years ago one could tell they cared, customer service reps really existed and “gasp” I even talked to some of them!

And for those here who have put Wolf in a “small narrow minded” group of society might as well toss me in there to because torture is unacceptable to me also.

Thanks John for bringing up some very well written quests that tend to pull on your heart strings. Unfortunately for me when I started playing WoW missed some of them because my gaming friends at the time were to young to care about reading quests and rushed right past them. Never understood this mentality because part of being in a virtual world is becoming involved with the environment.

“I still care. That’s why I’d buy an offline version of it.”

Tesh is there an offline version of it?

A lot of people generally consider themselves the “hero” or the “good guy” when they play RPGs. This is part of what they enjoy about the RPG experience. Forcing them to torture innocents, with no other option, totally destroys that immersion and ruins the fun.

This is why I have never been able to play a GTA game for more than an hour or so. No matter how great the game is, I eventually just can’t stomach the idea of being a “bad guy.”

-Michael
Muckbeast – Game Design and Virtual Worlds
http://www.muckbeast.com

I think you have forgotten that this is JUST a VIDEO GAME. Blizzard isnt having players do this to real people. These are animated characters, in an animated world, doing animated violence. No scientific study has EVER linked video game violence and behavior with attitudes or actions in real life. EVER! .. lemme say that again. NEVER. Not once!

I’m not linking violence in video games to any social problems – that’s a red herring. But let me take the bait (yet again) and say, personally I find having to murder your friend and torture innocent civilians repugnant in a game. Yet I am not asking for these things to be removed from the game. All I am asking for is that Blizzard respect those of us who do find this content unacceptable and offer us a choice to to the quests and progress with a hero class in a different way.

As a human being who plays and designs video games I’m very concerned about the slippery slope we are headed for. At what point do we draw the line in the sand? Torture, rape, bondage, incest? Just because it’s a fantasy video game doesn’t make it right.

In fact, violence is ALL over WOW. But, its JUST this particular piece of violence that you have a problem with. Which doesn’t seem very intellectually honest to me! You decry some acts, while not others. Im sure you feel that this PARTICULAR act has circumstances that cross the line…. but who defines the line? You? Me? Is it the majority that defines the line? Are you the majority? Do you presume to speak for a majority? I’m not buying it. I doubt you even speak for a “significant” number of anything.

Are you the majority? Are desensitized, amoral, video gamers who are conveniently indifferent about ethics or values the majority? No one really knows. So I can ask the same questions of you too. Again I’m just voicing a personal opinion. I have no wish to censor anyone’s video games. It seems I have fallen victim to the anti-Jack Thompson witchhunt crowd. Anyone that dares to question or ponder the violence in a video game is beset with these kinds of charges and labeled a “crusader”.

I read the Wrath of the Lich King beta forums and followed the debate on this very issue. I believe that a substantial number of players find torture in a video game questionable to say the least. Any smart video game company would do well to be aware of the values and sensibilities of their customers.

The numbers of people you speak of.. the people in forums and whatnot… I have serious doubts that a significant number of ANY of these people are losing ANY sleep over this. Most likely they’ve forgotten Completely! They moved on, got a good night’s sleep and perhaps learned a lesson about picking their battles!

Does it make you feel uncomfortable that there are people out there that feel sickened by torture in a video game? Yet acceptance of violence in any shape or form is somehow the norm for you. It’s astounding how these days right is wrong and wrong is right. George Orwell was prophetic indeed.

I’m sure few are losing sleep over this issue just as very few lose sleep over extended maintenance on patch day yet we still love to talk about it. Still, that does not make discussion of this issue null and void. In this little corner of the world I like to discuss the things that I believe. I welcome disagreements.

The same rights apply in reverse, when people like me read and evaluate your arguments with logic (the only person who really cares, is most likely you), and your opinions with our own (i think you need to pick your battles, you are wasting your breath on this one).

I’ll keep wasting my breath till my dying breath. Beliefs and opinions are always worth fighting for — especially when they contradict the herd mentality that we see today’s in video game culture.

I think you have forgotten that this is JUST a VIDEO GAME. Blizzard isnt having players do this to real people. These are animated characters, in an animated world, doing animated violence. No scientific study has EVER linked video game violence and behavior with attitudes or actions in real life. EVER! .. lemme say that again. NEVER. Not once!

In fact, violence is ALL over WOW. But, its JUST this particular piece of violence that you have a problem with. Which doesn’t seem very intellectually honest to me! You decry some acts, while not others. Im sure you feel that this PARTICULAR act has circumstances that cross the line…. but who defines the line? You? Me? Is it the majority that defines the line? Are you the majority? Do you presume to speak for a majority? I’m not buying it. I doubt you even speak for a “significant” number of anything.

The numbers of people you speak of.. the people in forums and whatnot… I have serious doubts that a significant number of ANY of these people are losing ANY sleep over this. Most likely they’ve forgotten Completely! They moved on, got a good night’s sleep and perhaps learned a lesson about picking their battles!

I hope my HTML tags work.

It’s funny… I almost get the same vibe from Blizzard as I did from Harry Potter; a labor of love and things of wonder falling victim to its own success.

Pooka: “Mogg, get inside. It is not safe out there while your father is gone.”

Mogg: “Momma? When is Poppa coming back from the fights in Warsong? It’s been so long.”

Pooka: “Soon child… Very soon.”

Shortly following this exchange Pooka herself will go outside to the yard, where she begins crying.

* * *

More proof that there were a handful of designers who really cared about making WoW a living world, alas, there doesn’t seem to have been enough of them.

Ironforge Airport – so much work for something you can only see from Griffin-back, or cliff climbing
Old Ironforge – why is it still there? Just delete it and replace the door with a stone wall.

A long time ago someone cared about Kalimdor, Azeroth and their inhabitants. This was their world, we just played in it. Now it seems Blizzard only care about getting your $15 each month.

There’s also this:
http://www.wowhead.com/?quest=3822

In Fallout 3 I was a knight in shining armor. Very helpful and courteous to the citizens of Megaton through the first 10 levels. There was an armory in there that was locked (couldn’t pick it as I didn’t have the proper skill) and when chatting with a friend he said you had to be bad to get in – kill the person with the key. So for “fun” I attacked and killed the person. That made other people in the town angry, and they started attacking me. I had a choice, die, or keep fighting. I ended up slaughtering the entire town.

I felt sick to my stomach after – literally. I was entirely confused – this was just a game, after all, so why does it matter? After years of being firmly planted in MMO-space I finally realized that not one single choice in any of those games made a difference, and I could slaughter away with glee without having a personal impact.

After that I did everything I could to make things right. I couldn’t bring the people back but it shaped the way I played the rest of the game. Perhaps if I had started “evil” it wouldn’t have effected me the way I did, but going from good to bad at the expense of my NPC friends was tough.

Thanks for posting your experiences and observations Chris. I think what happened to you and your examination of conscience is the holy grail of game design. I firmly believe that game designers *want* desperately to make players feel an impact when they “play” their games. It’s a very noble aspiration and I wish more would try to do it — especially in MMOs today.

The very best of art and entertainment seeks to make the audience feel emotion. With MMOs being more participatory form of entertainment there is even greater potential for this. It’s a real shame more hasn’t been done to explore this in current MMO development.

I’m very glad that people have posted many of their moving experiences with quests. This is exactly the kind of MMO that I have been wishing and hoping for. If enough of us start demanding it, perhaps a company with enough vision will step forward and make it happen.