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	<title>Comments on: Archaic MMO Subscription Fees: Welfare for Hardcore Players?</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.wolfsheadonline.com/?feed=rss2&#038;p=2089" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.wolfsheadonline.com/?p=2089</link>
	<description>MMORPG design &#38; commentary</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Tue, 07 Sep 2010 23:23:09 -0700</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: Asphyxia</title>
		<link>http://www.wolfsheadonline.com/?p=2089&#038;cpage=1#comment-8786</link>
		<dc:creator>Asphyxia</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 20 Apr 2010 22:59:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.wolfsheadonline.com/?p=2089#comment-8786</guid>
		<description>I agree that people should be taught how to play their class role in-game. hell it seems like a much better alternative than trolling the internet for hours and reading forums on what spell rotation i should be using to maximize my DPS.

But i dont think that blizzard should be focusing on solo content rather than the multiplayer oriented Raiding. Its and MMO, its made to be played with a slew of other people where you make groups and take down bosses who would be too tough to take out on your own. its made to socialize. How would it impact the game if blizz started cranking out solo content and it became near impossible to get groups because everyone wanted to get the new axe that drops from their solo encounter.

Blizzard has been focusing on a median as well, recently they released new 5-man and 5-man heroic instances that are easy to get into.(examples of such are The Pit of Saron, Forge of Souls, and Halls of  Reflection.) All of these instances and raids are furthering the story of Warcraft, which most of its subscribers are interested in.

i just dont think making solo content is the answer, however world events i just cant get enough of.

(i spent hours infecting stormwind and ironforge with the zombie plague)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree that people should be taught how to play their class role in-game. hell it seems like a much better alternative than trolling the internet for hours and reading forums on what spell rotation i should be using to maximize my DPS.</p>
<p>But i dont think that blizzard should be focusing on solo content rather than the multiplayer oriented Raiding. Its and MMO, its made to be played with a slew of other people where you make groups and take down bosses who would be too tough to take out on your own. its made to socialize. How would it impact the game if blizz started cranking out solo content and it became near impossible to get groups because everyone wanted to get the new axe that drops from their solo encounter.</p>
<p>Blizzard has been focusing on a median as well, recently they released new 5-man and 5-man heroic instances that are easy to get into.(examples of such are The Pit of Saron, Forge of Souls, and Halls of  Reflection.) All of these instances and raids are furthering the story of Warcraft, which most of its subscribers are interested in.</p>
<p>i just dont think making solo content is the answer, however world events i just cant get enough of.</p>
<p>(i spent hours infecting stormwind and ironforge with the zombie plague)</p>
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		<title>By: golergka</title>
		<link>http://www.wolfsheadonline.com/?p=2089&#038;cpage=1#comment-8063</link>
		<dc:creator>golergka</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 19 Jun 2009 18:49:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.wolfsheadonline.com/?p=2089#comment-8063</guid>
		<description>&quot;At its most fundamental level it gives everyone access to the same features but charges the same fee to a player that plays for a few hours a week and the player that plays 6 hours per day&quot;

You can always go back to the per-hour pay scheme of MUDs, you know ;)

Well, seriously I (as a F2P MMO gamedesigner ;) ) see the free2play model, with the direct transaction of $ into gold (without &quot;premium features&quot; and pay-only content) as ideal for me as a player. Really, it is just fair: you can grind gold in game - and you can also grind it on your daily job :) Also, it gives up to 40$ per user (and 200$ per paying user), which is much more better than traditional subscription fee (for me as a developer, of course) ;)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;At its most fundamental level it gives everyone access to the same features but charges the same fee to a player that plays for a few hours a week and the player that plays 6 hours per day&#8221;</p>
<p>You can always go back to the per-hour pay scheme of MUDs, you know <img src='http://www.wolfsheadonline.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>Well, seriously I (as a F2P MMO gamedesigner <img src='http://www.wolfsheadonline.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' />  ) see the free2play model, with the direct transaction of $ into gold (without &#8220;premium features&#8221; and pay-only content) as ideal for me as a player. Really, it is just fair: you can grind gold in game &#8211; and you can also grind it on your daily job <img src='http://www.wolfsheadonline.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' />  Also, it gives up to 40$ per user (and 200$ per paying user), which is much more better than traditional subscription fee (for me as a developer, of course) <img src='http://www.wolfsheadonline.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: golergka</title>
		<link>http://www.wolfsheadonline.com/?p=2089&#038;cpage=1#comment-8062</link>
		<dc:creator>golergka</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 19 Jun 2009 18:44:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.wolfsheadonline.com/?p=2089#comment-8062</guid>
		<description>In WoW hardcore PvP and PvE may not be the most used content, but it is, I&#039;m sure, the content that leveling players are going to - that is what they are leveling for, after they join a guild and hear about it.
It just feels epic and cool for player that didn&#039;t go to raids as a daily routine, and after 3 months of leveling a character the casual player already paid 45$ for subscribtion and 30$ minumim for the game and addons (with the most cheap variant). It is already too big for a casual player - and, well, I can&#039;t come up with better end-level activities for him than big-scale PvP and raiding ;)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In WoW hardcore PvP and PvE may not be the most used content, but it is, I&#8217;m sure, the content that leveling players are going to &#8211; that is what they are leveling for, after they join a guild and hear about it.<br />
It just feels epic and cool for player that didn&#8217;t go to raids as a daily routine, and after 3 months of leveling a character the casual player already paid 45$ for subscribtion and 30$ minumim for the game and addons (with the most cheap variant). It is already too big for a casual player &#8211; and, well, I can&#8217;t come up with better end-level activities for him than big-scale PvP and raiding <img src='http://www.wolfsheadonline.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Dan</title>
		<link>http://www.wolfsheadonline.com/?p=2089&#038;cpage=1#comment-8004</link>
		<dc:creator>Dan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Jun 2009 18:33:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.wolfsheadonline.com/?p=2089#comment-8004</guid>
		<description>These are excellent ideas.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>These are excellent ideas.</p>
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		<title>By: Tesh</title>
		<link>http://www.wolfsheadonline.com/?p=2089&#038;cpage=1#comment-8000</link>
		<dc:creator>Tesh</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Jun 2009 14:09:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.wolfsheadonline.com/?p=2089#comment-8000</guid>
		<description>Well, you *could* learn that sort of thing solo, with some well-directed henchmen in a private learning instance.  I&#039;d even argue that it&#039;s better to learn that way, so you don&#039;t mess up the play of other people when you make your midlevel group wipe repeatedly.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, you *could* learn that sort of thing solo, with some well-directed henchmen in a private learning instance.  I&#8217;d even argue that it&#8217;s better to learn that way, so you don&#8217;t mess up the play of other people when you make your midlevel group wipe repeatedly.</p>
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		<title>By: Hirvox</title>
		<link>http://www.wolfsheadonline.com/?p=2089&#038;cpage=1#comment-7995</link>
		<dc:creator>Hirvox</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Jun 2009 07:16:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.wolfsheadonline.com/?p=2089#comment-7995</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote cite=&quot;Longasc&quot;&gt;I fear a more dynamic world needs to be build from ground up with this idea in mind, and WoW wasn’t.&lt;/blockquote&gt;
Indeed. WoW really only persists character state (which includes phasing state) and raid/heroic instance status. Everything else is either on disk (terrain, world map objects) or in memory (doodad state, mobs). Changing that (for player housing, for example) would require a large overhaul of the engine.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote cite="Longasc"><p>I fear a more dynamic world needs to be build from ground up with this idea in mind, and WoW wasn’t.</p></blockquote>
<p>Indeed. WoW really only persists character state (which includes phasing state) and raid/heroic instance status. Everything else is either on disk (terrain, world map objects) or in memory (doodad state, mobs). Changing that (for player housing, for example) would require a large overhaul of the engine.</p>
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		<title>By: Wolfshead</title>
		<link>http://www.wolfsheadonline.com/?p=2089&#038;cpage=1#comment-7994</link>
		<dc:creator>Wolfshead</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Jun 2009 07:15:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.wolfsheadonline.com/?p=2089#comment-7994</guid>
		<description>Good comment!

This reminds me of the old Catch 22 for someone who is trying to break into a particular field of employment:

&quot;I can&#039;t get a job because I don&#039;t have enough experience.&quot;

&quot;I can&#039;t get experience until someone gives me a job.&quot;

It&#039;s the same way with MMOs. How can we expect someone to know how to tank, heal, crowd control, etc. when nobody will trust them because they have no experience.

These are the basic class skills that Blizzard should be teaching players in the early to mid levels.

For example about a year ago I was the main paladin tank for an Aussie guild and we&#039;d raid Kara a few times each week. It took me a few months of research -- I&#039;m not kidding here --  to figure out how to tank with a paladin because back then the mechanics of that class were so esoteric and bizzarre (this from a MMO veteran who has played a tanking warrior for many years). I had to pour over various paladin only forums and EJ forums just to figure out the optimum talents, gear, where to get that gear and enchants.

Nobody should be forced to take a college course to learn how to play a class that is essential for the enjoyment of 9 other people i.e. a raid. Rather it should all be taught to a player *within* the MMO.

These are the kinds of things that MMO designers should get gently introducing to players in those formative levels. Instead they have abandoned all responsibility and basically let players solo. :(</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Good comment!</p>
<p>This reminds me of the old Catch 22 for someone who is trying to break into a particular field of employment:</p>
<p>&#8220;I can&#8217;t get a job because I don&#8217;t have enough experience.&#8221;</p>
<p>&#8220;I can&#8217;t get experience until someone gives me a job.&#8221;</p>
<p>It&#8217;s the same way with MMOs. How can we expect someone to know how to tank, heal, crowd control, etc. when nobody will trust them because they have no experience.</p>
<p>These are the basic class skills that Blizzard should be teaching players in the early to mid levels.</p>
<p>For example about a year ago I was the main paladin tank for an Aussie guild and we&#8217;d raid Kara a few times each week. It took me a few months of research &#8212; I&#8217;m not kidding here &#8212;  to figure out how to tank with a paladin because back then the mechanics of that class were so esoteric and bizzarre (this from a MMO veteran who has played a tanking warrior for many years). I had to pour over various paladin only forums and EJ forums just to figure out the optimum talents, gear, where to get that gear and enchants.</p>
<p>Nobody should be forced to take a college course to learn how to play a class that is essential for the enjoyment of 9 other people i.e. a raid. Rather it should all be taught to a player *within* the MMO.</p>
<p>These are the kinds of things that MMO designers should get gently introducing to players in those formative levels. Instead they have abandoned all responsibility and basically let players solo. <img src='http://www.wolfsheadonline.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_sad.gif' alt=':(' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Longasc</title>
		<link>http://www.wolfsheadonline.com/?p=2089&#038;cpage=1#comment-7992</link>
		<dc:creator>Longasc</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Jun 2009 06:46:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.wolfsheadonline.com/?p=2089#comment-7992</guid>
		<description>I have to second Wolfsheads notion to deliver some more difficult single player or more difficult content in general.

I once had someone tank Caverns of Time who levelled to 80 as warrior and NEVER had  to tank, also has rarely seen an instance where he was not pulled through by a high level player.

Most players left the group, &quot;no point&quot;. But when was the guy supposed to learn the ropes. The early game is indeed empty, and alts of players who already know the game are often not forgiving to newbies either, and there are not that many totally new players anymore. And the new players are indeed playing through the game to max level and then they want to raid.

Dumbing down the existing raids for them does not solve that problem at all. I agree that there should be easier entry raids, but it still does not address the problem.


Regarding &quot;live dynamic events&quot;: HELL, yes! Going to work every day is probably more exciting and challenging than static content.

I remember people complaining about the zombie plague being a disruption, which embarrassed me. They said the poor newbies that got ganked in starter areas, but I know that a lot started complaining after their bank alt got butchered in the auction house and they had trouble auctioning their stuff.

I personally deem that to be very funny. ;)

Blizzard used a technology used &quot;phasing&quot; to tell some events, like the battle for Undercity. It is actually very similar to the instancing used in other games. I fear a more dynamic world needs to be build from ground up with this idea in mind, and WoW wasn&#039;t.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have to second Wolfsheads notion to deliver some more difficult single player or more difficult content in general.</p>
<p>I once had someone tank Caverns of Time who levelled to 80 as warrior and NEVER had  to tank, also has rarely seen an instance where he was not pulled through by a high level player.</p>
<p>Most players left the group, &#8220;no point&#8221;. But when was the guy supposed to learn the ropes. The early game is indeed empty, and alts of players who already know the game are often not forgiving to newbies either, and there are not that many totally new players anymore. And the new players are indeed playing through the game to max level and then they want to raid.</p>
<p>Dumbing down the existing raids for them does not solve that problem at all. I agree that there should be easier entry raids, but it still does not address the problem.</p>
<p>Regarding &#8220;live dynamic events&#8221;: HELL, yes! Going to work every day is probably more exciting and challenging than static content.</p>
<p>I remember people complaining about the zombie plague being a disruption, which embarrassed me. They said the poor newbies that got ganked in starter areas, but I know that a lot started complaining after their bank alt got butchered in the auction house and they had trouble auctioning their stuff.</p>
<p>I personally deem that to be very funny. <img src='http://www.wolfsheadonline.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>Blizzard used a technology used &#8220;phasing&#8221; to tell some events, like the battle for Undercity. It is actually very similar to the instancing used in other games. I fear a more dynamic world needs to be build from ground up with this idea in mind, and WoW wasn&#8217;t.</p>
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		<title>By: Wolfshead</title>
		<link>http://www.wolfsheadonline.com/?p=2089&#038;cpage=1#comment-7988</link>
		<dc:creator>Wolfshead</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Jun 2009 05:28:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.wolfsheadonline.com/?p=2089#comment-7988</guid>
		<description>Just wanted to post a link noting that Free Realms has surpassed the 2 million players mark:

http://kotaku.com/5271201/and-then-free-realms-surpassed-2-million-players</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Just wanted to post a link noting that Free Realms has surpassed the 2 million players mark:</p>
<p><a href="http://kotaku.com/5271201/and-then-free-realms-surpassed-2-million-players" rel="nofollow">http://kotaku.com/5271201/and-then-free-realms-surpassed-2-million-players</a></p>
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		<title>By: Tesh</title>
		<link>http://www.wolfsheadonline.com/?p=2089&#038;cpage=1#comment-7987</link>
		<dc:creator>Tesh</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 07 Jun 2009 16:17:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.wolfsheadonline.com/?p=2089#comment-7987</guid>
		<description>Ah, but Melf, that&#039;s monetizing the game by *content*, not by *access for a period of time*.  That&#039;s why Guild Wars works just fine; people buy the game, and get out of it what they put into it, but they never have to pay more for the privilege of playing it.  It&#039;s monetized by content (and a bit by convenience items), which is exactly the &quot;level playing field&quot; that so many sub proponents mistakenly think they are getting with their subs.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ah, but Melf, that&#8217;s monetizing the game by *content*, not by *access for a period of time*.  That&#8217;s why Guild Wars works just fine; people buy the game, and get out of it what they put into it, but they never have to pay more for the privilege of playing it.  It&#8217;s monetized by content (and a bit by convenience items), which is exactly the &#8220;level playing field&#8221; that so many sub proponents mistakenly think they are getting with their subs.</p>
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