You don’t know why your article needed to be rebutted? Seriously? After making it sound like anyone who plays past the first 15 minutes of EQ2 is either an idiot or a masochist?

That’s a flagrantly unfair characterization of my article. My goal was to improve the the EQ2 newbie experience. The fact that a few the fanboys of the EQ2 community missed the entire point and came out to “defend” their MMO is rather sad and pathetic.

Or is it that you don’t like anyone disputing any of your facts? Quite frankly, I really enjoyed Tipa’s rebuttal as there is nothing left to say after it. Quite frankly, I think you came out second best in the exchange.

Again my article is about my opinions and observations. You can dispute them all you want but they don’t change how I feel about what I experienced in EQ2.

Tipa by using the word “rebutal” turned this into a contest which I took offense to. This was never a contest. This was never intended to be the Harvard debating school where one person stacks up their impressions of a MMO versus the other person’s impressions and a winner is declared.

Obviously I touched a nerve with some bloggers in EQ2 community they felt they had to circle the wagons and defend their beloved MMO against anyone with a contrary opinion on a small facet of their MMO.

I think people like yourself are getting soft and spoiled with the usual parade of softball, puff EQ2 pieces. You don’t like it when anyone dares to question your MMO. You’ve grown complacent and lazy.

You seem obsessed with declaring a “winner”. There are no losers when people freely exchange information. Again, this is your insecurity showing. Besides, Tipa is a big girl — she can defend her own articles.

But let’s look at the bigger picture: how does anyone *win* when potential new subscribers decide they won’t bother to subscribe to EQ2? Pride is a terrible thing. You’d rather see EQ2 continue on with it’s shameful 1.2% worldwide share of the MMO market then see anything actually improve. I’m sorry that EQ2 has players that have such low expectations.

So go ahead keep drinking the Kool-Aid and continue to lie to yourself about the EQ2 newbie experience and keep your head in the sand.

By the way, I think SOE making the former head of SOE’s community relations team, Alan “Brenlo” Crosby, the new producer of EQ2 is an acknowledgement that EQ2 is going to be just trying to maintain its player base. Even without making Brenlo the producer, I think that SOE’s marketing efforts in support of EQ2 have made it obvious for years that SOE has conceded the fantasy MMORPG market to Blizzard and WoW. SOE is looking forward toward a future featuring Free Realms, DC Universe and The Agency. So if you are looking for some kind of mass movement to radically improve EQ2, you are wasting your time.

You may be right about Brenlo and that SOE is may be prepared to coast along with EQ2 (that’s been covered already) but considering the hostile tone of your post I’ll be the judge of whether I’m wasting my time or not.

I wish you well in your travels through Norrath and I hope what you are looking for. Unless, of course, it is a supply of material so you can trash EQ2. But if you are going to do that, please get some thicker skin, because people will respond to what you write. That’s one prediction I’m pretty confident in making.

I have no desire to trash EQ2 nor do I need to explain myself to you. I offered up unique analysis and ample explanation. What did you offer up? You just came here to complain, whine and piss all over someone who’s tried to offer up some positive suggestions. Maybe I’ll show up at your blog and return the favor. On second thought, I’m not going to lower myself to your level.

Quite frankly, it’s empty headed people like you that are keeping EQ2 behind and SOE treading water.

Or is it that you don’t like anyone disputing any of your facts? Quite frankly, I really enjoyed Tipa’s rebuttal as there is nothing left to say after it. Quite frankly, I think you came out second best in the exchange.

By the way, I think SOE making the former head of SOE’s community relations team, Alan “Brenlo” Crosby, the new producer of EQ2 is an acknowledgement that EQ2 is going to be just trying to maintain its player base. Even without making Brenlo the producer, I think that SOE’s marketing efforts in support of EQ2 have made it obvious for years that SOE has conceded the fantasy MMORPG market to Blizzard and WoW. SOE is looking forward toward a future featuring Free Realms, DC Universe and The Agency. So if you are looking for some kind of mass movement to radically improve EQ2, you are wasting your time.

I wish you well in your travels through Norrath and I hope what you are looking for. Unless, of course, it is a supply of material so you can trash EQ2. But if you are going to do that, please get some thicker skin, because people will respond to what you write. That’s one prediction I’m pretty confident in making.

I was once one of the people throwing virtual rotten vegetables then the penny dropped.

What Richard does is to consider a point of game design very carefully, distill it into one controversial sentence and then throw that sentence out to agitate MMO fans and workers. He has then drawn them into a discussion where he can lay down his carefully considered points as part of the rhetorical sequence of discussion.

He trolls to suck people in then gets them to think about his very carefully thought out points.

Remember the man is a teacher. Not just a teacher but a teacher of university students (who are harder to discipline and less attentive than children). And not just a teacher of university students but a teacher of university students who are all video game obsessives.

He is a master at getting ideas across to other people.

There’s no need to feel that he gets unjustly pilloried, he deliberately courts controversy to generate interest.

In the same vein don’t be discouraged that you’re being commented upon and blogged about. I actually came here from West Karana yesterday. I thought her post was interesting and yours was too. It’s all part of blogging.

I like complex too as long as it is explained, presented, and educated in the game. I dislike being forced to third party sites. I don’t mind reading manuals, but those are typically ill designed for that purpose.

I *like* complexity and depth in a game. I’m just decidedly not a fan of a game that takes a long time to “get interesting” or even “start to be fun”. (That goes for any game, not EQ2 in particular.) Especially if I’m paying a sub for it.

Tangentially, I’m not a fan of these huge clients and day long patches. The Free Realms and Wizard 101 streaming clients make for a much kinder initial experience.

As a huge fan of EQ1 i’m not sure if i can put into words how desparately I wanted to like EQ2. I didn’t even want to play WoW – I wanted to go to EQ2. Although I had outgrown the pitfalls of EQ1 I hoped SOE had grown their own experience and adressed those shortcomings that were present in EQ1.

I wonder how gamers who had WoW as their first MMO will accept Blizzzards next one – although I suppose that is a separate post altogether.

I’ll probably go bug Tipa or another EQ2 supporter to give me a short piece on “Entering EQ2 for the first time” to lay the groundwork and expectations a player can expect for EQ2 – I’m in a non dedicated game mode right now and am in pure trial games mode – I would love an EQ2 vet to lay the groundwork to give the experience morebstaying power..

I suppose a good argument can be made for consistency as well. If AOC was able to continue their newbie experience through mid and end levels perhaps it would have had more staying power.

That being said, you absolutely want to have that new player experience a memorable one – so players play through it instead of going “meh” and moving on to something different.

I adored EQ1. I skipped both EQ2 and WoW at launch as I was enjoying DAOC. My friends went to WoW. I went to Wow.

I left WoW, eventually. Decided to trial out EQ2 to see if I had missed anything. I didn’t last 15 minutes. Many of the reasons you listed here, Wolf.

Your experiences with MMOs almost exactly mirror mine Chris. I loved EQ! Eventually I migrated to WoW but I too wanted to give EQ2 a try. Each time I did I found myself losing interest rather quickly.

Now, as a veteran MMO’er through all the years of gaming, and dozens of MMO titles, I probably should know better and just fight through the clunkiness until the game gets good! Right?

Probably. Unfortunately, I am getting too old to have to fight through poorly designed newbie experience to see if the game is any good at level 10. If they can’t make the beginning fun, how will the rest of the game be?

Great points here. I think that many EQ2 veterans have forgotten what it’s like to be a newbie in a MMO that has one of the steepest learning curves of any MMO that I’ve ever played. To a veteran MMO player looking for a new MMO it’s mind boggling and overwhelming. I can’t even imagine what it would be like for a complete newbie to MMOs.

EQ2 is a MMO that has layers upon layers of complexity. Trying to figure out how things work takes almost 50% of your time while you are in the game. Good game design teaches players gently and intuitively about mechanics. Poor game design results in confusing and inexplicable features that requires that players create forums where all of the details and inner mechanics can be explained.

One slogan that Blizzard credits for being the foundation for the success of their company is this:

Easy to learn, hard to master.

This design philosophy is no longer optional in the video game world. It’s mandatory if you want to be competitive. Yet when I use this kind of analysis to look at the first 15 minutes of EQ2 it seems that SOE essentially ignored it during it’s initial construction of the Norrath newbie areas.

Every aspect of the EQ2 newbie experience needs to pass this test with flying colors if they are looking to increase their abysmal 1.2% world wide MMO market share.

If a player has the slightest amount of trouble figuring out the user interface and other features then how will they be able master more complex game mechanics that are introduced later on such as grouping and raiding?

It really boils down to an issue of trust and expectations. These days people expect that they are going to get a well designed and orchestrated newbie experience. When they don’t see that right off the bat then they have every reason to be concerned about what lies beyond that experience.

I left WoW, eventually. Decided to trial out EQ2 to see if I had missed anything. I didn’t last 15 minutes. Many of the reasons you listed here, Wolf.

Now, as a veteran MMO’er through all the years of gaming, and dozens of MMO titles, I probably should know better and just fight through the clunkiness until the game gets good! Right?

Probably. Unfortunately, I am getting too old to have to fight through poorly designed newbie experience to see if the game is any good at level 10. If they can’t make the beginning fun, how will the rest of the game be?