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	<title>Comments on: Waiting for the Next MMO Revolution</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.wolfsheadonline.com/?feed=rss2&#038;p=3368" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.wolfsheadonline.com/?p=3368</link>
	<description>MMORPG design &#38; commentary</description>
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		<title>By: Tesh</title>
		<link>http://www.wolfsheadonline.com/?p=3368&#038;cpage=1#comment-8513</link>
		<dc:creator>Tesh</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 Oct 2009 17:43:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.wolfsheadonline.com/?p=3368#comment-8513</guid>
		<description>I love Three Rings, but just didn&#039;t get into Whirled, despite prowling around in its beta.  I didn&#039;t want to mess with the Actionscript.  I *do* want to learn coding to make my art and design better and more holistic, but it&#039;s very back burner at the moment.  Well, that, and I don&#039;t want to buy Flash.  I can&#039;t stand the program.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I love Three Rings, but just didn&#8217;t get into Whirled, despite prowling around in its beta.  I didn&#8217;t want to mess with the Actionscript.  I *do* want to learn coding to make my art and design better and more holistic, but it&#8217;s very back burner at the moment.  Well, that, and I don&#8217;t want to buy Flash.  I can&#8217;t stand the program.</p>
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		<title>By: Azetidine</title>
		<link>http://www.wolfsheadonline.com/?p=3368&#038;cpage=1#comment-8511</link>
		<dc:creator>Azetidine</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 20 Oct 2009 17:53:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.wolfsheadonline.com/?p=3368#comment-8511</guid>
		<description>The thing is that a lot of the people reading these blogs are ideas people. That&#039;s not a bad thing; with enough will, sure, we could go find accountants and coders. But how to convince them to work on this project without that $20m? If you go open-source you wind up like Planeshift (http://www.planeshift.it/about.html): several years in development, nowhere close to a final product. Maybe I just don&#039;t know how to make an open source project sexy.

The other problem with having bloggers be ideas people is that, with so many of us, we&#039;re probably going to disagree. So even if we start up a project, effort gets split.

The thing about MMO creation tools, on the other hand, is that the ones I&#039;ve tried (all two of them &gt;_&gt;) have just been clunky. I tried Three Rings&#039;s Whirled, which was based on Flash, so as a content developer I would&#039;ve had to learn how to use that first. And let&#039;s face it, I&#039;m lazy. Also with the not being a coder. (You mean I have to learn Actionscript to make my avatars do anything? Bah.) Plus the whole two and a half dimensions thing was not exactly enticing. Raph Koster&#039;s Metaplace, while lovely and ambitious, was also just not quite what I was looking for. But then it&#039;s very young, and maybe it&#039;ll get better. He does want to integrate 3D worlds into Metaplace, but, looking at the current state, probably not soon.

And maybe the MMO creation tool I&#039;m looking for is too heavy to be embedded in a browser, and needs something more like Steam to connect and advertise the game worlds it&#039;ll allow player/creators to make.

I really don&#039;t know.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The thing is that a lot of the people reading these blogs are ideas people. That&#8217;s not a bad thing; with enough will, sure, we could go find accountants and coders. But how to convince them to work on this project without that $20m? If you go open-source you wind up like Planeshift (<a href="http://www.planeshift.it/about.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.planeshift.it/about.html</a>): several years in development, nowhere close to a final product. Maybe I just don&#8217;t know how to make an open source project sexy.</p>
<p>The other problem with having bloggers be ideas people is that, with so many of us, we&#8217;re probably going to disagree. So even if we start up a project, effort gets split.</p>
<p>The thing about MMO creation tools, on the other hand, is that the ones I&#8217;ve tried (all two of them &gt;_&gt;) have just been clunky. I tried Three Rings&#8217;s Whirled, which was based on Flash, so as a content developer I would&#8217;ve had to learn how to use that first. And let&#8217;s face it, I&#8217;m lazy. Also with the not being a coder. (You mean I have to learn Actionscript to make my avatars do anything? Bah.) Plus the whole two and a half dimensions thing was not exactly enticing. Raph Koster&#8217;s Metaplace, while lovely and ambitious, was also just not quite what I was looking for. But then it&#8217;s very young, and maybe it&#8217;ll get better. He does want to integrate 3D worlds into Metaplace, but, looking at the current state, probably not soon.</p>
<p>And maybe the MMO creation tool I&#8217;m looking for is too heavy to be embedded in a browser, and needs something more like Steam to connect and advertise the game worlds it&#8217;ll allow player/creators to make.</p>
<p>I really don&#8217;t know.</p>
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		<title>By: Wolfshead</title>
		<link>http://www.wolfsheadonline.com/?p=3368&#038;cpage=1#comment-8507</link>
		<dc:creator>Wolfshead</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 Oct 2009 06:09:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.wolfsheadonline.com/?p=3368#comment-8507</guid>
		<description>I feel your pain Bob. Hopefully someday soon MMO tools will come into existence that enable passionate people to create their own MMO. Then what people create will be based on the merits of the concepts and design instead of the ridiculous barrier to entry of having to come up with millions of dollars.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I feel your pain Bob. Hopefully someday soon MMO tools will come into existence that enable passionate people to create their own MMO. Then what people create will be based on the merits of the concepts and design instead of the ridiculous barrier to entry of having to come up with millions of dollars.</p>
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		<title>By: Wolfshead</title>
		<link>http://www.wolfsheadonline.com/?p=3368&#038;cpage=1#comment-8506</link>
		<dc:creator>Wolfshead</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 Oct 2009 05:57:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.wolfsheadonline.com/?p=3368#comment-8506</guid>
		<description>Update on the Headless Horseman event in Goldshire:. About 20 of us have tried to put out the fires but we keep failing and this is in prime time. I just started doing these events this year so I have no idea what the &quot;success&quot; number of participants is.

The worst part is that there were at least 10 people hanging around not even bothering to pitch in and lend a hand to put out the fires. Naturally when we did put out the fires they smashed the pumpkin for the reward. 

End result: Blizzard penalizes people that participate when not enough show up and rewards lazy players who don&#039;t contribute. Brilliant scripting!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Update on the Headless Horseman event in Goldshire:. About 20 of us have tried to put out the fires but we keep failing and this is in prime time. I just started doing these events this year so I have no idea what the &#8220;success&#8221; number of participants is.</p>
<p>The worst part is that there were at least 10 people hanging around not even bothering to pitch in and lend a hand to put out the fires. Naturally when we did put out the fires they smashed the pumpkin for the reward. </p>
<p>End result: Blizzard penalizes people that participate when not enough show up and rewards lazy players who don&#8217;t contribute. Brilliant scripting!</p>
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		<title>By: A message of hope &#171; MMORPGs</title>
		<link>http://www.wolfsheadonline.com/?p=3368&#038;cpage=1#comment-8484</link>
		<dc:creator>A message of hope &#171; MMORPGs</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 Oct 2009 21:40:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.wolfsheadonline.com/?p=3368#comment-8484</guid>
		<description>[...] is worried: The reason why I’m in a perpetual state of angst is that I feel that the MMO industry has [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] is worried: The reason why I’m in a perpetual state of angst is that I feel that the MMO industry has [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Xaos Bob</title>
		<link>http://www.wolfsheadonline.com/?p=3368&#038;cpage=1#comment-8479</link>
		<dc:creator>Xaos Bob</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 Oct 2009 01:07:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.wolfsheadonline.com/?p=3368#comment-8479</guid>
		<description>Is there any way to do something about this ourselves?  I know none of us can fork out $20M to do something like this, and nearly as few would be able to persuade a bank or other investors to do the same, but it seems like there should be something we can do other than just blog our hearts out.

I&#039;m a writer, an illustrator and an MMORPG veteran. I have written out megs of ideas in scores of documents focused on one conceptual game and compartmentalizing my creative energies so I don&#039;t get confused later. I do character design and some Lightwave 3D for fun. I have a very clear picture of all of things I dislike (or like less) about any and all of the games I have played, MMO or not, and an equally clear idea of what I consistently like. 

In short, I am an ideas man, a concept designer, and while I understand the basics of coding well enough to follow a conversation and even make suggestions, I am no coder. I am no pitchman. I am no accountant. I am only one bristle in the paintbrush, but overflowing with great ideas, and I am NOT ALONE. I keep well up on MMO news, and I am very aware and abreast of the vast collection of wisdom, insight, analysis and opinions from my fellow gamers online (and a few friends closer to home).

There MUST be some way we can do more than sit on our thumbs and await Blizzard&#039;s next &quot;hoo-ah!&quot;...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Is there any way to do something about this ourselves?  I know none of us can fork out $20M to do something like this, and nearly as few would be able to persuade a bank or other investors to do the same, but it seems like there should be something we can do other than just blog our hearts out.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m a writer, an illustrator and an MMORPG veteran. I have written out megs of ideas in scores of documents focused on one conceptual game and compartmentalizing my creative energies so I don&#8217;t get confused later. I do character design and some Lightwave 3D for fun. I have a very clear picture of all of things I dislike (or like less) about any and all of the games I have played, MMO or not, and an equally clear idea of what I consistently like. </p>
<p>In short, I am an ideas man, a concept designer, and while I understand the basics of coding well enough to follow a conversation and even make suggestions, I am no coder. I am no pitchman. I am no accountant. I am only one bristle in the paintbrush, but overflowing with great ideas, and I am NOT ALONE. I keep well up on MMO news, and I am very aware and abreast of the vast collection of wisdom, insight, analysis and opinions from my fellow gamers online (and a few friends closer to home).</p>
<p>There MUST be some way we can do more than sit on our thumbs and await Blizzard&#8217;s next &#8220;hoo-ah!&#8221;&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Modran</title>
		<link>http://www.wolfsheadonline.com/?p=3368&#038;cpage=1#comment-8474</link>
		<dc:creator>Modran</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Oct 2009 17:05:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.wolfsheadonline.com/?p=3368#comment-8474</guid>
		<description>
&lt;blockquote&gt;Then you have games like Eve, Darkfall, Fallen Earth, and arguably even DDO. These are not WoW in any shape or form. Most games like this don’t do very well.&lt;/blockquote&gt;


Most, perhaps, I don&#039;t know.
But of the four you cited, the first one is doing extremely well, constantly gaining new subscribers. It now has more than 300k users. Firends who tried it weren&#039;t thrilled, but those who stay stay for a lifetime, and player retention is a very good thing.

The second seems to be doing quite well, having opened a second server some months ago. I &#039;d like to try it, but am afraid it&#039;s not for me. So, not without a trial.

The third is receiving quite an amount of praise from our fellow bloggers. I haven&#039;t tried  it either.

The fourth wouldn&#039;t have seen my coins some months ago. Now that it is F2P, me and 3-4 friends get together once a week for 2h. I would not pay 15€ for that amount of action. But a friend recently paid some euros for store points. I will, but not so much for the points as to send them something, just as I do for Kingdom of Loathing.

As for WoW, been there, done that, will never go back.
So, yeah, the future holds more of the same for those big MMOs that are here to bring in the big money. But the future also will (should) offer niche games that will not only survive, but also thrive if done right.

Yes, as Arnold said,  roaming the dark corners of the Internet is needed to find them. And yes, some are terrible. But we have blogs, and twitters to make people know that there are lights in the darkness (and not all of them are to make your boat crash on rocks so they can stab, pillage and rape you). So, heads up, hope is never lost !</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>Then you have games like Eve, Darkfall, Fallen Earth, and arguably even DDO. These are not WoW in any shape or form. Most games like this don’t do very well.</p></blockquote>
<p>Most, perhaps, I don&#8217;t know.<br />
But of the four you cited, the first one is doing extremely well, constantly gaining new subscribers. It now has more than 300k users. Firends who tried it weren&#8217;t thrilled, but those who stay stay for a lifetime, and player retention is a very good thing.</p>
<p>The second seems to be doing quite well, having opened a second server some months ago. I &#8216;d like to try it, but am afraid it&#8217;s not for me. So, not without a trial.</p>
<p>The third is receiving quite an amount of praise from our fellow bloggers. I haven&#8217;t tried  it either.</p>
<p>The fourth wouldn&#8217;t have seen my coins some months ago. Now that it is F2P, me and 3-4 friends get together once a week for 2h. I would not pay 15€ for that amount of action. But a friend recently paid some euros for store points. I will, but not so much for the points as to send them something, just as I do for Kingdom of Loathing.</p>
<p>As for WoW, been there, done that, will never go back.<br />
So, yeah, the future holds more of the same for those big MMOs that are here to bring in the big money. But the future also will (should) offer niche games that will not only survive, but also thrive if done right.</p>
<p>Yes, as Arnold said,  roaming the dark corners of the Internet is needed to find them. And yes, some are terrible. But we have blogs, and twitters to make people know that there are lights in the darkness (and not all of them are to make your boat crash on rocks so they can stab, pillage and rape you). So, heads up, hope is never lost !</p>
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		<title>By: Tesh</title>
		<link>http://www.wolfsheadonline.com/?p=3368&#038;cpage=1#comment-8469</link>
		<dc:creator>Tesh</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Oct 2009 00:23:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.wolfsheadonline.com/?p=3368#comment-8469</guid>
		<description>Considering the expense of making these things, and the investor risk aversion, we&#039;re pretty much stuck with any big titles being clones with minor innovation.  They can&#039;t afford to be different.

Smaller, more agile games will be where the next wave of interesting design comes from... or a big name studio that isn&#039;t beholden to stodgy investors and has some guts.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Considering the expense of making these things, and the investor risk aversion, we&#8217;re pretty much stuck with any big titles being clones with minor innovation.  They can&#8217;t afford to be different.</p>
<p>Smaller, more agile games will be where the next wave of interesting design comes from&#8230; or a big name studio that isn&#8217;t beholden to stodgy investors and has some guts.</p>
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		<title>By: Stabs</title>
		<link>http://www.wolfsheadonline.com/?p=3368&#038;cpage=1#comment-8468</link>
		<dc:creator>Stabs</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 08 Oct 2009 07:09:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.wolfsheadonline.com/?p=3368#comment-8468</guid>
		<description>Arnold has just said pretty much what I was going to say.

There are a lot of different MMOs with varying degrees of innovation.

At one extreme you have games like Runes of Magic. It&#039;s WoW with less quality. Same engine, same type of quests in the same quest-based levelling system, more attractive pricing model, lower polish.

Then you have games that copy WoW and add a twist. Lotro is basically WoW with an all-pervading Tolkien theme that permeates everything. Even hit points are now morale. Very high quality, a good pick for those who like their WoW Tolkien-flavour.

Champions Online is WoW-in-spandex for people who want to play WoW while wearing tights.

Then you have games like Eve, Darkfall, Fallen Earth, and arguably even DDO. These are not WoW in any shape or form. Most games like this don&#039;t do very well.

The venture capital and hype follows the market and the paying public tends to spend most money on the second category. This means we see evolutionary change not revolutionary change. From a money-man&#039;s perspective this would probably be the best thing to risk capital on because the evolutionary games have generally worked well. Evolutionary games that are considered to have in some ways failed like AoC and WAR had implementation problems not design problems and in any event are to some extent considered failures because of unrealistic expectations.

I&#039;m sure the future holds more of the same. Star Wars WoW will bring us the voice acting evolution, an attempt to make the WoW model even more fun by throwing money at it. Star Trek WoW will bring us the ship to ship combat evolution, showing the WoW fans what they&#039;ve been missing all these years by not playing Eve.

And some things look really different and new. I expect genuine genre-shattering evolution from This Secret World, from CCP&#039;s vampire game and from (ironically) Blizzard&#039;s new secret MMO project. After all why would Blizzard do another WoW game?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Arnold has just said pretty much what I was going to say.</p>
<p>There are a lot of different MMOs with varying degrees of innovation.</p>
<p>At one extreme you have games like Runes of Magic. It&#8217;s WoW with less quality. Same engine, same type of quests in the same quest-based levelling system, more attractive pricing model, lower polish.</p>
<p>Then you have games that copy WoW and add a twist. Lotro is basically WoW with an all-pervading Tolkien theme that permeates everything. Even hit points are now morale. Very high quality, a good pick for those who like their WoW Tolkien-flavour.</p>
<p>Champions Online is WoW-in-spandex for people who want to play WoW while wearing tights.</p>
<p>Then you have games like Eve, Darkfall, Fallen Earth, and arguably even DDO. These are not WoW in any shape or form. Most games like this don&#8217;t do very well.</p>
<p>The venture capital and hype follows the market and the paying public tends to spend most money on the second category. This means we see evolutionary change not revolutionary change. From a money-man&#8217;s perspective this would probably be the best thing to risk capital on because the evolutionary games have generally worked well. Evolutionary games that are considered to have in some ways failed like AoC and WAR had implementation problems not design problems and in any event are to some extent considered failures because of unrealistic expectations.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m sure the future holds more of the same. Star Wars WoW will bring us the voice acting evolution, an attempt to make the WoW model even more fun by throwing money at it. Star Trek WoW will bring us the ship to ship combat evolution, showing the WoW fans what they&#8217;ve been missing all these years by not playing Eve.</p>
<p>And some things look really different and new. I expect genuine genre-shattering evolution from This Secret World, from CCP&#8217;s vampire game and from (ironically) Blizzard&#8217;s new secret MMO project. After all why would Blizzard do another WoW game?</p>
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		<title>By: Stabs</title>
		<link>http://www.wolfsheadonline.com/?p=3368&#038;cpage=1#comment-8467</link>
		<dc:creator>Stabs</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 08 Oct 2009 06:51:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.wolfsheadonline.com/?p=3368#comment-8467</guid>
		<description>Cough, Eve Online?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Cough, Eve Online?</p>
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