My vision of something more immersive and rewarding would be having for example starter area where two antagonising races are opposite sides of a zone, towns, mines, dungeons and locations can then be fought over and won/lost depending on the result of PVP fought by the players + NPC’s (PVE+PVP).

Areas held by one faction open up content to them, this gives effectively limited time content, and from experiences in Guildwars where this happened in one area it was very popular.

That then also adds in the ability for the game developers to give both sides a chance to be victors/losers (Attackers/defenders) now and then by altering the number and quality of NPC’s fighting. So if there is a dominant side they can get a stiffer challenge now and then too. This matches real life, often factions get weaker the further they venture from their strongholds.

The ebb and flow can even be dictated by the story or by spawning grounds feeding new forces in (thinking of EQ2 Frogloks vs Trolls), perhaps even seasonal when a mountain pathway becomes crossable or a lake freezes over more factions can join in.

Scale that up then to a world with many factions and the game becomes both complex at a higher level and simple at the lower, just what I am looking for, if only someone would develop it though…

Either by exploiting the levelling system to get easy kills, or by exploiting the gear system to push the gear difference to such extremes that there is no longer a challenge.

For this reason I would like to see MMO’s start putting in a few hard percentages on hits here and there just to bring the difference between players much closer. This works in PVE too, where often raid geared characters just trivialise elite dungeon mobs. But if those mobs did say a 1 in 6 hit that hit for 2-3% damage+a fixed number the difference between the best and worst geared narrows while the best gear still matters.

I think something similar would work in PVP, although its never going to be fair like Planetside, there a newbie can pick up a shotgun and fire it just as well as a 5 year vet. Everytime though I fail to see how a current MMO would work without the levelling mechanic (swapping level differences for gear differences just shifts the problem)…

Yet, would a PvP-only MMO be economically viable? It seems to me that they almost *must* ride on the budgetary coattails of a PvE monster to share art and engine assets to make it visually and mechanically interesting enough to compete. The PvP audience is simply smaller… but are they as demanding of high quality visuals, solid server tech and frequent updates?

Darkfall is famously the “little game that could”, so it’s not impossible to do, perhaps, but they are also notably not at the same level of polish as even LOTRO or WAR. The core gameplay is better for PvP fans, but even the most devout tend to offer caveats when they promote the game. I, for one, hope that gameplay carries the day, but unfortunately, that’s not what sells in the market at large.

You know how many people in the end PvPed more than occasionally. Not many.

GW also has a much more interesting and team based pvp system than most other MMOs. Or any other, for that matter, if I am allowed to be bold.

But the bulk of players seems to be the casual solo player that does not really want to learn how to pvp or even if he could compete, just does not want to. Or is too lazy to get organized. I am afraid that the competitive MMO players are a very tiny minority, even if many cry all the time for pvp.

Ultima Online did not determine the abilities of your character, you could train him through the skill based and point capped system whatever way you wanted. One versus one was fair – and that craftsmen could not totally compete with highly specialized fighter types was perfectly acceptable. But they could at least train themselves enough that they had a chance to run away.

In the end it was always many vs one guy. To make sure the victim could not escape. So much about the illusion of “fair combat”.

You are also right in another matter: The combat system is primitive. It does not have the depth and player skill involved like Street Fighter. This includes Ultima Online – the combat in MMOs is most of the time outright primitive and shallow!

Now enter STO and Klingons, the feared “Viral Matrix” total stun and PvP. Despite all its problems, the game has a strong PvP system. The totally imba “VM” (Viral Matrix) is about as feared a rogue stuns and the fear mechanic of the Warlock. It is even better, as it totally weeds out and stomps noobs. Very much as certain leg sweeps were considered to be imba and “unfair” in Street fighter.

I agree that a team specializing heavily in this ability will kill most pickup-groups soundly and faster than any other team. But an organized team not using VM vs a team that uses it as their core strategy will stomp the VM team, as they have to give up a ton of other strong abilities to get it.

As STO has a very casual nature, I fear that VM (I agree that a max rank 36 seconds stun is too much, also in regards of the mostly helpless mobs in PvE) will be nerfed so much that it will just disappear completely. This means it will disappear completely rather than deliberately getting replaced by other strategies by the free decisions of the players.

So I say even if we get a system that really demands player skill and reflexes, that people will cry havoc and that skill balancing will become driven by the majority of players and/or forum outrage. This also happened to some extent in Guild Wars.

Not only PvP would profit from a more sophisticated combat system, PvE would also become more interesting.

- Your quote, “So until MMO companies can find the courage to create a dynamic virtual world that is so gripping, intense and visceral as to encourage player to participate against other players I and many countless others will remain on the sidelines of your phony cartoon “war”.”

I’m afraid there isn’t a single MMO company in your lifetime that will make this game as it won’t produce enough income. So get a good book, you’ll get more rewards for your money.

- The issue at hand is how many people are happy with current MMO PvP. It is about the random number generator and gear disparity. I’m amazed at how many people put up with an unfair fight in all of today’s MMOs. Add to that, level increaseas and a constant gear chase. That is where it gets old, stale and musty.

- Another issue is the amount of AFK botting blizzard has allowed in their battle grounds. No amount of reporting it gets the bots penalized. I mean why should blizzard ban them? It’s $15 a month. It’s like aim botting in first person shooters. It kills it for a person paying attention. For the unawashed masses they don’t know, don’t care. The real PvPers move on.

I really do think that gamers should be able to jump into the part of these MMOs that the like most, whether it’s the long march through the world, raiding or PvP. Why make a raider or PvPer muddle through PvE if they don’t want to? (And vice versa, of course…)