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	<title>Comments on: Build It and They Will Come</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.wolfsheadonline.com/?feed=rss2&#038;p=3978" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.wolfsheadonline.com/?p=3978</link>
	<description>MMORPG design &#38; commentary</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Tue, 07 Sep 2010 23:23:09 -0700</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: It&#8217;s Not WoW&#8217;s Fault New MMOs Suck - We Fly Spitfires - MMORPG Blog</title>
		<link>http://www.wolfsheadonline.com/?p=3978&#038;cpage=1#comment-8756</link>
		<dc:creator>It&#8217;s Not WoW&#8217;s Fault New MMOs Suck - We Fly Spitfires - MMORPG Blog</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 22 Mar 2010 22:01:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.wolfsheadonline.com/?p=3978#comment-8756</guid>
		<description>[...] It&#8217;s my opinion that once developers and publishers stop chasing the dream of taking on the Titan that is WoW and just start focusing on creating excellent MMOs, we&#8217;ll eventually see something that rivals Blizzard&#8217; dominance. Not because it&#8217;s a WoW clone but because it&#8217;s a great game that&#8217;s tapped into something else that players are looking for. As Wolfshead said, build it and they will come. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] It&#8217;s my opinion that once developers and publishers stop chasing the dream of taking on the Titan that is WoW and just start focusing on creating excellent MMOs, we&#8217;ll eventually see something that rivals Blizzard&#8217; dominance. Not because it&#8217;s a WoW clone but because it&#8217;s a great game that&#8217;s tapped into something else that players are looking for. As Wolfshead said, build it and they will come. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: We Fly Spitfires</title>
		<link>http://www.wolfsheadonline.com/?p=3978&#038;cpage=1#comment-8743</link>
		<dc:creator>We Fly Spitfires</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Mar 2010 15:47:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.wolfsheadonline.com/?p=3978#comment-8743</guid>
		<description>I think there&#039;s a lot of similarities between MMORPGs and the film industry. Just because a film of genre X does well and films from genre Y haven&#039;t done so well, it doesn&#039;t mean that all films ever made in Y are going to fail and X are going to succeed. 

I can point out numerous examples from Hollywood franchises. For instance, by the mid 90&#039;s everyone thought comic book films would never be successful but, low and behold, along came some really well-made, good films like Blade, X-Men and Spiderman and they smashed the box office. We then saw a whole spate of successful comic book based films.... but they weren&#039;t successful because of their genre, they were successful because they were *good* films.

I think the exact same thing applies to MMOs. Developers/publishers think that because WoW was successful, every game must be like WoW. They think because Farmville is popular, every game must be like Farmville. I think that&#039;s nonsense. I think if a game is GOOD, then it will do well. Genre or media or whatever has nothing to do with it, it only matters if the product is well-made and enjoyable.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think there&#8217;s a lot of similarities between MMORPGs and the film industry. Just because a film of genre X does well and films from genre Y haven&#8217;t done so well, it doesn&#8217;t mean that all films ever made in Y are going to fail and X are going to succeed. </p>
<p>I can point out numerous examples from Hollywood franchises. For instance, by the mid 90&#8217;s everyone thought comic book films would never be successful but, low and behold, along came some really well-made, good films like Blade, X-Men and Spiderman and they smashed the box office. We then saw a whole spate of successful comic book based films&#8230;. but they weren&#8217;t successful because of their genre, they were successful because they were *good* films.</p>
<p>I think the exact same thing applies to MMOs. Developers/publishers think that because WoW was successful, every game must be like WoW. They think because Farmville is popular, every game must be like Farmville. I think that&#8217;s nonsense. I think if a game is GOOD, then it will do well. Genre or media or whatever has nothing to do with it, it only matters if the product is well-made and enjoyable.</p>
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		<title>By: Wolfshead</title>
		<link>http://www.wolfsheadonline.com/?p=3978&#038;cpage=1#comment-8742</link>
		<dc:creator>Wolfshead</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Mar 2010 02:20:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.wolfsheadonline.com/?p=3978#comment-8742</guid>
		<description>I highly recommend the 5000 Year Leap! As someone who migrated here from a socialist country, I can tell you from firsthand experience America really is an amazing country full of opportunity. Read this book and you&#039;ll find out that &quot;America&quot; was no accident and the result of careful planning by some rare and insightful men.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I highly recommend the 5000 Year Leap! As someone who migrated here from a socialist country, I can tell you from firsthand experience America really is an amazing country full of opportunity. Read this book and you&#8217;ll find out that &#8220;America&#8221; was no accident and the result of careful planning by some rare and insightful men.</p>
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		<title>By: Wolfshead</title>
		<link>http://www.wolfsheadonline.com/?p=3978&#038;cpage=1#comment-8741</link>
		<dc:creator>Wolfshead</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Mar 2010 02:05:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.wolfsheadonline.com/?p=3978#comment-8741</guid>
		<description>Fair point Raph. I was afraid that I may have read a bit too much into that quote. However, this emerging trend has raised some serious issues that a virtual world apologist like myself feel compelled to raise. If anything your article has provoked some spirited defenses of virtual worlds and forced many of us to re-examine what we believe and why.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Fair point Raph. I was afraid that I may have read a bit too much into that quote. However, this emerging trend has raised some serious issues that a virtual world apologist like myself feel compelled to raise. If anything your article has provoked some spirited defenses of virtual worlds and forced many of us to re-examine what we believe and why.</p>
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		<title>By: Wolfshead</title>
		<link>http://www.wolfsheadonline.com/?p=3978&#038;cpage=1#comment-8740</link>
		<dc:creator>Wolfshead</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Mar 2010 01:58:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.wolfsheadonline.com/?p=3978#comment-8740</guid>
		<description>Thanks for the clarification Cuppycake. I agree with you, I think MMO devs to have much to learn from social networking games. I also believe that part of the problem is that most of the devs are male and intent on producing content for other males while ignoring what females like. Still I don&#039;t want to stereotype males either because not all males can subsist on a steady diet of killing things -- some of us like to craft and do other things as well :)

While I think combat is probably here to stay in most game based MMOs I think there is plenty of room for a broader range of activities, pursuits and challenges within virtual worlds. Hey if Farmville can bring in millions of dollars based on the simple act of planting a garden then I think that MMO should take notice.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for the clarification Cuppycake. I agree with you, I think MMO devs to have much to learn from social networking games. I also believe that part of the problem is that most of the devs are male and intent on producing content for other males while ignoring what females like. Still I don&#8217;t want to stereotype males either because not all males can subsist on a steady diet of killing things &#8212; some of us like to craft and do other things as well <img src='http://www.wolfsheadonline.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>While I think combat is probably here to stay in most game based MMOs I think there is plenty of room for a broader range of activities, pursuits and challenges within virtual worlds. Hey if Farmville can bring in millions of dollars based on the simple act of planting a garden then I think that MMO should take notice.</p>
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		<title>By: Longasc</title>
		<link>http://www.wolfsheadonline.com/?p=3978&#038;cpage=1#comment-8737</link>
		<dc:creator>Longasc</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Mar 2010 13:08:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.wolfsheadonline.com/?p=3978#comment-8737</guid>
		<description>By the way .... http://bit.ly/a1IxjL is this the kind of casual social game of the future? I would rather say a completely different genre/audience.

But this apparently is where money can be made. Dung is fertile.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>By the way &#8230;. <a href="http://bit.ly/a1IxjL" rel="nofollow">http://bit.ly/a1IxjL</a> is this the kind of casual social game of the future? I would rather say a completely different genre/audience.</p>
<p>But this apparently is where money can be made. Dung is fertile.</p>
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		<title>By: Longasc</title>
		<link>http://www.wolfsheadonline.com/?p=3978&#038;cpage=1#comment-8736</link>
		<dc:creator>Longasc</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Mar 2010 11:20:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.wolfsheadonline.com/?p=3978#comment-8736</guid>
		<description>I just wondered if before the year 200 [~when Ultima Online and EverQuest were created) money was plentiful. For some reason it seems to become more and more expensive to create a MMO, even if the core design follows well known schemes.

I do not think there was any guarantee besides the belief of the makers that their games would rock and sell well. Today studios are either timid (are the stakes/money involved higher?) or simply don&#039;t have/dare to bring anything really new to the table. And then wonder when people go back to WoW or their other favorite MMO after a month.

Guild Wars was VERY rough at release. Respeccing was a pain, people did not all become pvp players in the endgame as the devs apparently expected and so on. But it was really something new, cool and different. It is still very popular, just check the charts which games people play (XFire e.g.).

Today I see more experimentation how to milk more money from the customer than new kinds of games. There is the old subscription model, the never (?) copied Guild Wars model, F2P with micro-transactions and the &quot;Cryptic&quot; model, box sale+subscription+micro transactions...^^

Maybe SoE gets bold and tries a completely new kind of EverQuest based on the Free Realms browser-engine?


Tangent:
By the way, if you want to see how trying to figure out what the customer wants can ruin a game, see Cryptic and Star Trek Online. The game is not a &quot;classic&quot; MMO and they really did not figure out how to make their ground missions a bit more fun so far. But they already copied the daily quest and badges idea. I think you can do that if you have people who love(d) your game and just play on like automatons for badges (WoW). The usual demotivated go-go PUG in the dungeon finder that just wants to get stuff done to get some badges - till they have every badge gear to ... well raid what they could already raid before.

I think Cryptic&#039;s Star Trek Online will become a fine example of devs asking their players and trying to find out what they want in surveys, copying more elements from other games even if they don&#039;t fit that well and reacting to the *supposed* wishes of the playerbase.

To be told in the end that it all sucks... :P</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I just wondered if before the year 200 [~when Ultima Online and EverQuest were created) money was plentiful. For some reason it seems to become more and more expensive to create a MMO, even if the core design follows well known schemes.</p>
<p>I do not think there was any guarantee besides the belief of the makers that their games would rock and sell well. Today studios are either timid (are the stakes/money involved higher?) or simply don&#8217;t have/dare to bring anything really new to the table. And then wonder when people go back to WoW or their other favorite MMO after a month.</p>
<p>Guild Wars was VERY rough at release. Respeccing was a pain, people did not all become pvp players in the endgame as the devs apparently expected and so on. But it was really something new, cool and different. It is still very popular, just check the charts which games people play (XFire e.g.).</p>
<p>Today I see more experimentation how to milk more money from the customer than new kinds of games. There is the old subscription model, the never (?) copied Guild Wars model, F2P with micro-transactions and the &#8220;Cryptic&#8221; model, box sale+subscription+micro transactions&#8230;^^</p>
<p>Maybe SoE gets bold and tries a completely new kind of EverQuest based on the Free Realms browser-engine?</p>
<p>Tangent:<br />
By the way, if you want to see how trying to figure out what the customer wants can ruin a game, see Cryptic and Star Trek Online. The game is not a &#8220;classic&#8221; MMO and they really did not figure out how to make their ground missions a bit more fun so far. But they already copied the daily quest and badges idea. I think you can do that if you have people who love(d) your game and just play on like automatons for badges (WoW). The usual demotivated go-go PUG in the dungeon finder that just wants to get stuff done to get some badges &#8211; till they have every badge gear to &#8230; well raid what they could already raid before.</p>
<p>I think Cryptic&#8217;s Star Trek Online will become a fine example of devs asking their players and trying to find out what they want in surveys, copying more elements from other games even if they don&#8217;t fit that well and reacting to the *supposed* wishes of the playerbase.</p>
<p>To be told in the end that it all sucks&#8230; <img src='http://www.wolfsheadonline.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_razz.gif' alt=':P' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Brian 'Psychochild' Green</title>
		<link>http://www.wolfsheadonline.com/?p=3978&#038;cpage=1#comment-8734</link>
		<dc:creator>Brian 'Psychochild' Green</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 Mar 2010 20:48:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.wolfsheadonline.com/?p=3978#comment-8734</guid>
		<description>One problem is that innovation isn&#039;t binary.  Let&#039;s take the iPhone as an example: it was built off the concept of cell phones.  It didn&#039;t innovate the core concept of a mobile telephone, it improved upon it in several ways that was pleasing to customers.  (There&#039;s also a large amount of influence given the status of owning Apple products based on the history of Mac computers, the iPod, etc. , but we&#039;ll ignore that for this discussion.)

Looking at WoW (and most Blizzard products), they very rarely innovate.  As I said in a previous comment, I think Blizzard&#039;s strength is in recognizing what works well then pulling elements into a game and polishing them to a fine shine.  While there were a few usability improvements in WoW, it was obviously heavily influenced by previous games.  You see this pattern with many Blizzard products, and they are one of the most successful developers today.

I wrote about &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.psychochild.org/?p=892&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;the dilemma between innovation and polish&lt;/a&gt; before so I won&#039;t rehash those arguments here.

I certainly do agree that true innovation comes from giving the customer what they didn&#039;t know they wanted.  The problem is that it&#039;s much easier said than done.  You have to go through a lot of flops before you find that magical bit of innovation that works.  Even then, someone with bigger guns like a Blizzard might just come along and polish you into second place.

My thoughts.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>One problem is that innovation isn&#8217;t binary.  Let&#8217;s take the iPhone as an example: it was built off the concept of cell phones.  It didn&#8217;t innovate the core concept of a mobile telephone, it improved upon it in several ways that was pleasing to customers.  (There&#8217;s also a large amount of influence given the status of owning Apple products based on the history of Mac computers, the iPod, etc. , but we&#8217;ll ignore that for this discussion.)</p>
<p>Looking at WoW (and most Blizzard products), they very rarely innovate.  As I said in a previous comment, I think Blizzard&#8217;s strength is in recognizing what works well then pulling elements into a game and polishing them to a fine shine.  While there were a few usability improvements in WoW, it was obviously heavily influenced by previous games.  You see this pattern with many Blizzard products, and they are one of the most successful developers today.</p>
<p>I wrote about <a href="http://www.psychochild.org/?p=892" rel="nofollow">the dilemma between innovation and polish</a> before so I won&#8217;t rehash those arguments here.</p>
<p>I certainly do agree that true innovation comes from giving the customer what they didn&#8217;t know they wanted.  The problem is that it&#8217;s much easier said than done.  You have to go through a lot of flops before you find that magical bit of innovation that works.  Even then, someone with bigger guns like a Blizzard might just come along and polish you into second place.</p>
<p>My thoughts.</p>
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		<title>By: Tesh</title>
		<link>http://www.wolfsheadonline.com/?p=3978&#038;cpage=1#comment-8732</link>
		<dc:creator>Tesh</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 Mar 2010 19:49:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.wolfsheadonline.com/?p=3978#comment-8732</guid>
		<description>Point of curiosity:  education today is already a lowest-common-denominator fascist No Child Left Behind hell.  Jes&#039; sayin&#039;...

Great article, Wolfshead.  I think the crux is the line:
&quot;Innovation is never driven by the consumer; the consumer always follows and never leads.&quot;

To which I can only offer a hearty &quot;abso-bloomin&#039;-lutely&quot;!  There&#039;s certainly a place for &quot;me too&quot; design inasmuch as it fosters iterative improvement, but the biggest leaps of progress are made by those who aren&#039;t afraid to fail, and who go out and change things, rather than following the herd.

Tangentially, I saw &quot;The 5000 Year Leap&quot; in your reading list lately.  What did you make of that?  I can&#039;t help but think that said book has a few innovations listed within.  (I haven&#039;t read it yet, but I intend to.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Point of curiosity:  education today is already a lowest-common-denominator fascist No Child Left Behind hell.  Jes&#8217; sayin&#8217;&#8230;</p>
<p>Great article, Wolfshead.  I think the crux is the line:<br />
&#8220;Innovation is never driven by the consumer; the consumer always follows and never leads.&#8221;</p>
<p>To which I can only offer a hearty &#8220;abso-bloomin&#8217;-lutely&#8221;!  There&#8217;s certainly a place for &#8220;me too&#8221; design inasmuch as it fosters iterative improvement, but the biggest leaps of progress are made by those who aren&#8217;t afraid to fail, and who go out and change things, rather than following the herd.</p>
<p>Tangentially, I saw &#8220;The 5000 Year Leap&#8221; in your reading list lately.  What did you make of that?  I can&#8217;t help but think that said book has a few innovations listed within.  (I haven&#8217;t read it yet, but I intend to.)</p>
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		<title>By: Raph</title>
		<link>http://www.wolfsheadonline.com/?p=3978&#038;cpage=1#comment-8731</link>
		<dc:creator>Raph</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 Mar 2010 19:45:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.wolfsheadonline.com/?p=3978#comment-8731</guid>
		<description>I feel like you are reading more into the first statement there than I intended. The innovation response was more to point out that accessibility IS a valid axis on which to innovate.

I actually think that what we are going to see is convergence. The farming in Farmville is not that different from the resource harvesting in SWG. If the social games continue to pick up MMO-like elements, they will end up as rather &quot;worldy&quot; MMOs.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I feel like you are reading more into the first statement there than I intended. The innovation response was more to point out that accessibility IS a valid axis on which to innovate.</p>
<p>I actually think that what we are going to see is convergence. The farming in Farmville is not that different from the resource harvesting in SWG. If the social games continue to pick up MMO-like elements, they will end up as rather &#8220;worldy&#8221; MMOs.</p>
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